1 00:00:14,859 --> 00:00:12,249 on this episode of skeptic Oh Alex talks 2 00:00:18,339 --> 00:00:14,869 with Jonathan to lot Phillips about his 3 00:00:21,279 --> 00:00:18,349 new book the electric jeezus if you buy 4 00:00:23,350 --> 00:00:21,289 into materialism both as an individual 5 00:00:24,939 --> 00:00:23,360 if you think you're a biological robot 6 00:00:28,419 --> 00:00:24,949 and that's all you are well man you're 7 00:00:30,189 --> 00:00:28,429 lost if you buy into materialism as it 8 00:00:32,170 --> 00:00:30,199 exists in our society that we need to 9 00:00:34,990 --> 00:00:32,180 get all weekend and we need to go bomb 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:35,000 other people all that stuff you're lost 11 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:37,489 but as soon as you cross that chasm and 12 00:00:42,580 --> 00:00:40,370 you say ok there's something more isn't 13 00:00:44,740 --> 00:00:42,590 there the risk there that we get into 14 00:00:47,740 --> 00:00:44,750 this backdoor materialism again where we 15 00:00:50,020 --> 00:00:47,750 really think that we're building this 16 00:00:53,170 --> 00:00:50,030 stuff that's gonna do this stuff for 17 00:00:54,939 --> 00:00:53,180 tomorrow we're in control thing once 18 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:54,949 again a set up in either or and I think 19 00:01:00,130 --> 00:00:57,770 it's both end because if I look at most 20 00:01:01,869 --> 00:01:00,140 of my clients most of them need to get 21 00:01:04,570 --> 00:01:01,879 in the material world a little bit they 22 00:01:06,969 --> 00:01:04,580 need to get in their bodies and find out 23 00:01:08,859 --> 00:01:06,979 how to figure out jobs and live an 24 00:01:11,020 --> 00:01:08,869 abundant life that doesn't mean by a 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:11,030 mansion but it just means to know how to 26 00:01:15,969 --> 00:01:13,250 support themselves and talk with people 27 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:15,979 on the other hand I definitely saw this 28 00:01:20,710 --> 00:01:18,290 with like occupy you know it was very 29 00:01:22,810 --> 00:01:20,720 frustrating for me seeing all the 30 00:01:24,490 --> 00:01:22,820 projected anger it's good to express 31 00:01:26,890 --> 00:01:24,500 anger but when you projected at others 32 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:26,900 it creates more that fear culture it's 33 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:28,970 actually a violent energy projected what 34 00:01:32,679 --> 00:01:30,530 I like to evolve are in this is we're 35 00:01:35,140 --> 00:01:32,689 more of like oh how can you create its 36 00:01:38,139 --> 00:01:35,150 being and doing and creating a right 37 00:01:50,010 --> 00:01:38,149 relationship between that stay with us 38 00:01:53,890 --> 00:01:52,270 welcome to skeptic oh where we explore 39 00:01:56,050 --> 00:01:53,900 controversial science with leading 40 00:01:58,990 --> 00:01:56,060 researchers thinkers and their critics 41 00:02:01,090 --> 00:01:59,000 I'm your host aleksic Harris and if 42 00:02:03,660 --> 00:02:01,100 you've been following skeptic 0 for a 43 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:03,670 while then you know that this term 44 00:02:09,070 --> 00:02:06,290 worldview keeps coming up a lot and it 45 00:02:11,980 --> 00:02:09,080 seems to me that that is much more than 46 00:02:15,220 --> 00:02:11,990 we would like to admit the driving force 47 00:02:17,740 --> 00:02:15,230 behind what we believe what information 48 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:17,750 we take in and and how we answer the 49 00:02:22,780 --> 00:02:20,330 most important questions in life about 50 00:02:24,790 --> 00:02:22,790 who we are and what really matters to us 51 00:02:26,620 --> 00:02:24,800 and if you've listened to this show then 52 00:02:29,290 --> 00:02:26,630 you also know that the idea of 53 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:29,300 transformation is something that comes 54 00:02:34,860 --> 00:02:31,970 up quite a bit and of course those two 55 00:02:37,930 --> 00:02:34,870 go hand-in-hand how open are you to 56 00:02:40,420 --> 00:02:37,940 transforming yourself in your world view 57 00:02:41,620 --> 00:02:40,430 and therefore your beliefs so it's 58 00:02:44,650 --> 00:02:41,630 always interesting to me when I run 59 00:02:47,050 --> 00:02:44,660 across people like today's guest to lot 60 00:02:49,449 --> 00:02:47,060 Jonathan Phillips who's willing to be 61 00:02:51,340 --> 00:02:49,459 open about the process they've gone 62 00:02:54,180 --> 00:02:51,350 through the transformational process 63 00:02:57,310 --> 00:02:54,190 that has changed his world view 64 00:02:59,890 --> 00:02:57,320 dramatically and how that's led him on 65 00:03:02,770 --> 00:02:59,900 his journey I think it's quite a 66 00:03:05,650 --> 00:03:02,780 fascinating exploration I really enjoyed 67 00:03:10,690 --> 00:03:05,660 talking to him here's my dialogue with 68 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:10,700 talat Jonathan Phillips today we welcome 69 00:03:16,479 --> 00:03:13,910 to lot Jonathan Phillips to skeptic 02 70 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:16,489 lot as the author of the electric jeezus 71 00:03:21,759 --> 00:03:19,010 the healing journey of a contemporary 72 00:03:24,310 --> 00:03:21,769 Gnostic he's also the co-founder of a 73 00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:24,320 rather amazing web magazine named 74 00:03:30,780 --> 00:03:27,049 reality sandwich and an equally amazing 75 00:03:33,759 --> 00:03:30,790 social movement at evolver dotnet 76 00:03:36,130 --> 00:03:33,769 welcome to skeptical to lot thanks so 77 00:03:38,770 --> 00:03:36,140 much for joining me oh great it's great 78 00:03:41,949 --> 00:03:38,780 to be here at thanks Alex well your book 79 00:03:43,810 --> 00:03:41,959 the electric jeezus is well it's just a 80 00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:43,820 great read I mean I was just blown away 81 00:03:49,030 --> 00:03:46,670 at it how it pulls you in and just makes 82 00:03:51,699 --> 00:03:49,040 you want to turn page after page it's 83 00:03:54,009 --> 00:03:51,709 it's of course a spiritual Odyssey as 84 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:54,019 the name suggests but it reads like a 85 00:03:59,560 --> 00:03:56,810 Tom Wolfe novel tell us a little bit 86 00:04:00,650 --> 00:03:59,570 about this book and how it came about 87 00:04:01,970 --> 00:04:00,660 and and what 88 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:01,980 people are gonna find when they read it 89 00:04:07,220 --> 00:04:04,710 I think I might cite you on that Alex 90 00:04:09,380 --> 00:04:07,230 that reads reads like a Tom Wolfe novel 91 00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:09,390 there yeah I think first I want to just 92 00:04:14,990 --> 00:04:12,000 say how I'm doing that you love it like 93 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:15,000 I feel like it's a unique book in a 94 00:04:18,020 --> 00:04:16,530 sense they're very few books i feel that 95 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:18,030 are out there like this that are 96 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:21,510 spiritual encounter culture in a memoir 97 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:24,690 I you know I grew up reading on the road 98 00:04:29,510 --> 00:04:27,330 and electric kool-aid acid test which 99 00:04:31,220 --> 00:04:29,520 you know the title kind of is a little 100 00:04:34,070 --> 00:04:31,230 bit of a reference to as well in 101 00:04:36,740 --> 00:04:34,080 small-town Colorado and I just was like 102 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:36,750 you know where's the bus here wherever 103 00:04:42,170 --> 00:04:40,290 that buses I want to be on it yeah and I 104 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:42,180 feel like this the book talks a little 105 00:04:45,980 --> 00:04:44,130 bit about I feel like the buses are 106 00:04:48,260 --> 00:04:45,990 arriving for a lot of people in the 107 00:04:51,650 --> 00:04:48,270 festival culture or spiritual movement 108 00:04:54,020 --> 00:04:51,660 ayahuasca design science like the buses 109 00:04:56,180 --> 00:04:54,030 are arriving so some of the book tracks 110 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:56,190 that but it's really my journey it's got 111 00:05:00,410 --> 00:04:57,810 two components to it the book for those 112 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:00,420 ever read it it's um my journey from 113 00:05:07,220 --> 00:05:03,810 being a near eight goofiest really very 114 00:05:08,860 --> 00:05:07,230 skeptical political activists to going 115 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:08,870 through a dark night of the soul and 116 00:05:13,370 --> 00:05:11,310 suddenly having mystical experiences 117 00:05:15,230 --> 00:05:13,380 happen to me and opening me up to it a 118 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:15,240 different reality in a kind of a 119 00:05:20,330 --> 00:05:17,610 different way of looking at activism 120 00:05:22,310 --> 00:05:20,340 from paradigm shifting perspectives if 121 00:05:24,140 --> 00:05:22,320 you will and then the other part of the 122 00:05:26,330 --> 00:05:24,150 book is once I start having these 123 00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:26,340 experiences it's to my surprise that's 124 00:05:32,180 --> 00:05:28,110 got a it's like a research book about 125 00:05:33,530 --> 00:05:32,190 energy and you know quantum physics and 126 00:05:36,530 --> 00:05:33,540 string theory is now saying the whole 127 00:05:39,470 --> 00:05:36,540 universe is energy but how early mystics 128 00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:39,480 knew about that in shamans and have been 129 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:41,430 tracking it across cultures throughout 130 00:05:46,190 --> 00:05:44,130 the planet and I mean my real surprising 131 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:46,200 is how interested I was in early 132 00:05:50,030 --> 00:05:48,450 Christianity and that they knew all 133 00:05:52,340 --> 00:05:50,040 about this stuff it's almost like they 134 00:05:53,810 --> 00:05:52,350 were very Yogi's or shamans I'm almost 135 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:53,820 like they probably were like Yogi's are 136 00:05:57,020 --> 00:05:55,770 shamans themselves but that's 137 00:05:59,030 --> 00:05:57,030 interesting you know there's a couple of 138 00:06:02,720 --> 00:05:59,040 aspects there that I wanted to pull out 139 00:06:04,670 --> 00:06:02,730 maybe let's start with this Christianity 140 00:06:07,220 --> 00:06:04,680 part since that's the last thread that 141 00:06:09,590 --> 00:06:07,230 you left lying there and Graham Hancock 142 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:09,600 writes the introduction to your book and 143 00:06:14,530 --> 00:06:12,390 he pulls out a quote from the book that 144 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:14,540 I thought was very very interest 145 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:16,130 and he kind of set me thinking in a 146 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:17,930 slightly different way than I had before 147 00:06:23,470 --> 00:06:20,570 let me read this this is from to--let's 148 00:06:25,990 --> 00:06:23,480 book the electric jeezus he writes this 149 00:06:28,890 --> 00:06:26,000 about the judeo-christian tradition and 150 00:06:31,770 --> 00:06:28,900 that it is the underlying operating 151 00:06:34,710 --> 00:06:31,780 platform for our civilization are 152 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:34,720 languages laws mores work ethic 153 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:37,730 sexuality even our way of perceiving 154 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:40,490 time and it shapes our worldview whether 155 00:06:47,290 --> 00:06:44,330 we realize it or not so i think that's 156 00:06:49,780 --> 00:06:47,300 interesting to look at that as a 157 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:49,790 starting point and then i guess 158 00:06:54,790 --> 00:06:52,310 juxtapose that with what you just said 159 00:06:57,610 --> 00:06:54,800 about maybe this deeper understanding 160 00:06:59,590 --> 00:06:57,620 about christian Gnosticism do you want 161 00:07:01,780 --> 00:06:59,600 to walk that bridge for us a little bit 162 00:07:04,510 --> 00:07:01,790 yeah I mean I feel like there's several 163 00:07:08,110 --> 00:07:04,520 avenues you could take addressing this 164 00:07:09,970 --> 00:07:08,120 um what I think you've described word 165 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:09,980 what that describes their the operating 166 00:07:15,250 --> 00:07:12,770 system is the cultural matrix that we're 167 00:07:18,550 --> 00:07:15,260 in but I do think that traumatic myth 168 00:07:20,350 --> 00:07:18,560 however was formed has spread with the 169 00:07:22,210 --> 00:07:20,360 growth of civilization across the planet 170 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:22,220 and you know a lot of violence and 171 00:07:27,190 --> 00:07:25,250 dominance and now that's what we're 172 00:07:29,620 --> 00:07:27,200 operating in its as fear consciousness 173 00:07:31,990 --> 00:07:29,630 running running doing doing struggling 174 00:07:34,540 --> 00:07:32,000 God doesn't love us we don't know how to 175 00:07:36,550 --> 00:07:34,550 be in community all of these things but 176 00:07:39,580 --> 00:07:36,560 there's definitely been politics always 177 00:07:42,460 --> 00:07:39,590 involved with the development of these 178 00:07:44,410 --> 00:07:42,470 type of Western doctrines I mean look at 179 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:44,420 the New Testament I talked about that a 180 00:07:49,780 --> 00:07:47,690 bit in the electric jeezus where you 181 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:49,790 know you have a boys club at the council 182 00:07:55,330 --> 00:07:53,270 Nicaea with Emperor Constantine where 183 00:07:56,620 --> 00:07:55,340 they just decided they decided that 184 00:07:58,780 --> 00:07:56,630 they're just going to limit all these 185 00:08:01,150 --> 00:07:58,790 beautiful text to like four or five 186 00:08:03,910 --> 00:08:01,160 books that's it and you know that's a 187 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:03,920 highly controversial area to get into 188 00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:05,810 but if we can make it a little bit less 189 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:08,590 controversial what I think modern 190 00:08:14,110 --> 00:08:11,690 Gnosticism scholarship has clearly shown 191 00:08:16,930 --> 00:08:14,120 is that the first century Christians 192 00:08:20,140 --> 00:08:16,940 were extremely diverse in their belief 193 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:20,150 systems but why is that so relevant why 194 00:08:26,170 --> 00:08:23,110 do we need to go there to kind of 195 00:08:28,170 --> 00:08:26,180 reinterpret or rewrite that history well 196 00:08:31,110 --> 00:08:28,180 yeah it's a healing and inter Gary 197 00:08:33,269 --> 00:08:31,120 Gration because I think what we got is 198 00:08:37,110 --> 00:08:33,279 with the Gnostics in I like to explain 199 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:37,120 not the word Gnostic is a modern 200 00:08:42,719 --> 00:08:40,570 scholarly word it's made up you know I 201 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:42,729 actually think there weren't necessarily 202 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:44,680 Gnostics and Christians until there was 203 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:47,890 a rift that happened after the upheaval 204 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:51,010 of the second Jewish revolution against 205 00:08:56,070 --> 00:08:54,370 the Romans but you know it was actually 206 00:08:59,220 --> 00:08:56,080 spiritual back then it was about 207 00:09:02,280 --> 00:08:59,230 initiation into deeper levels of self 208 00:09:05,820 --> 00:09:02,290 and understandings of the cosmos which 209 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:05,830 is pretty much how real i think more 210 00:09:11,579 --> 00:09:08,290 truer pasco is whether it's Buddhism 211 00:09:14,250 --> 00:09:11,589 yoga our Sufism there's there's an issue 212 00:09:15,900 --> 00:09:14,260 attic path of understanding and knows 213 00:09:19,530 --> 00:09:15,910 this is direct knowledge of the divine 214 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:19,540 that was taken out and the Gnostics 215 00:09:23,940 --> 00:09:21,730 would call the systems that came in 216 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:23,950 place he's very going models and I think 217 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:25,810 there is a lot of hierarchy and control 218 00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:29,050 in them that create kind of the 219 00:09:35,310 --> 00:09:33,000 subservient classes if you will that 220 00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:35,320 comes with what the Gnostics would call 221 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:38,880 waterless canals that these these new 222 00:09:44,670 --> 00:09:41,410 institutions that were rising and would 223 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:44,680 eventually kill them off really didn't 224 00:09:48,630 --> 00:09:46,990 have that Christ consciousness as they 225 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:48,640 would say that deeper connection with 226 00:09:53,130 --> 00:09:50,770 the universal wisdom and truth of 227 00:09:55,829 --> 00:09:53,140 oneness and so I think we're all 228 00:09:57,540 --> 00:09:55,839 suffering from that and it's late in our 229 00:10:00,030 --> 00:09:57,550 laws and our more eyes and everything I 230 00:10:01,970 --> 00:10:00,040 talked about and so there's a healing 231 00:10:05,579 --> 00:10:01,980 that can come when we start 232 00:10:09,090 --> 00:10:05,589 reintegrating the judeo-christians story 233 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:09,100 and spiritual understanding into our 234 00:10:14,220 --> 00:10:12,250 lives without the political Dogma behind 235 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:14,230 it don't throw out the baby Jesus with 236 00:10:19,650 --> 00:10:17,170 the bathwater essentially yeah I just 237 00:10:22,230 --> 00:10:19,660 think and again I don't know how to kind 238 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:22,240 of keep probing on this but I'm sure 239 00:10:26,460 --> 00:10:23,770 these are issues that you run into all 240 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:26,470 the time so who better to really talk 241 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:28,810 about them with than you and that's that 242 00:10:34,910 --> 00:10:31,570 all those topics are extremely 243 00:10:37,050 --> 00:10:34,920 controversial even among people who are 244 00:10:39,269 --> 00:10:37,060 initiated are awakened enlightened 245 00:10:41,769 --> 00:10:39,279 whatever you want to do i just finished 246 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:41,779 interview with a guy named Rick 247 00:10:46,210 --> 00:10:43,310 archery oh yeah because you love Greg 248 00:10:48,999 --> 00:10:46,220 yeah buddha at the gas pump so you can 249 00:10:51,879 --> 00:10:49,009 take the 150 different spiritual 250 00:10:54,999 --> 00:10:51,889 teachers that rick has has had on or I 251 00:10:58,480 --> 00:10:55,009 can take the variety of spiritual 252 00:11:00,519 --> 00:10:58,490 seekers and finders that I've had on and 253 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:00,529 you can find a diversity of different 254 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:04,490 opinions about spirit guides about this 255 00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:07,610 ultimate source this reality they even 256 00:11:15,069 --> 00:11:10,430 be controversial about the existence of 257 00:11:18,460 --> 00:11:15,079 of Jesus or any reality to Christianity 258 00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:18,470 or Judaism so we have a challenge here 259 00:11:24,249 --> 00:11:21,769 as someone who is an earnest seeker to 260 00:11:26,980 --> 00:11:24,259 sort through and sift through all that 261 00:11:28,569 --> 00:11:26,990 how do you guide people in in that 262 00:11:30,850 --> 00:11:28,579 respect you say you take a gentle 263 00:11:34,239 --> 00:11:30,860 approach find your own path but don't we 264 00:11:36,850 --> 00:11:34,249 wind up kind of trying to push people or 265 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:36,860 pull people one way or another whoa whoa 266 00:11:42,129 --> 00:11:39,410 so I mean the sansa diamond is very 267 00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:42,139 clear on that this ayahuasca church 268 00:11:48,819 --> 00:11:45,680 those talking about you cannot push 269 00:11:51,610 --> 00:11:48,829 anybody you don't even invite somebody 270 00:11:53,439 --> 00:11:51,620 what you did do is maybe you talked 271 00:11:55,929 --> 00:11:53,449 about it once or twice if you were to 272 00:11:57,999 --> 00:11:55,939 somebody if you if you're passionate and 273 00:11:59,949 --> 00:11:58,009 then they might ask to come to a 274 00:12:01,780 --> 00:11:59,959 ceremony and then you still usually 275 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:01,790 don't it's maybe like the third time 276 00:12:05,740 --> 00:12:03,290 they ask where you're like ok they're 277 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:05,750 really actually being called to this so 278 00:12:08,860 --> 00:12:07,490 I mean yeah I go on interviews and talk 279 00:12:11,710 --> 00:12:08,870 about stuff and do a lot of public 280 00:12:13,210 --> 00:12:11,720 speaking but I mean mostly it's I only 281 00:12:14,980 --> 00:12:13,220 work with people that are called to it 282 00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:14,990 so i have this bioenergetic healing 283 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:17,600 practice and i just won't work with 284 00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:19,610 clients that don't want to like I only 285 00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:20,959 work with ones that are really feeling 286 00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:22,910 called to transform their lives cuz 287 00:12:26,619 --> 00:12:24,800 otherwise like I don't want to push 288 00:12:30,519 --> 00:12:26,629 things they'll get there on their own I 289 00:12:33,069 --> 00:12:30,529 do love the skeptics pat because that 290 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:33,079 was my path in like I love the skeptics 291 00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:34,970 cuz like man there's probably lots 292 00:12:39,249 --> 00:12:36,529 people out there think I'm crazy or 293 00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:39,259 whatever that's fine because they 294 00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:40,790 they're going on their journey and 295 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:43,550 whatever truth they earn they freakin 296 00:12:48,220 --> 00:12:45,850 earned it you know it wasn't an easy 297 00:12:49,449 --> 00:12:48,230 easily done thing and that's kind of 298 00:12:51,819 --> 00:12:49,459 mine I don't believe it until I 299 00:12:53,379 --> 00:12:51,829 experienced it and you know I just see 300 00:12:54,950 --> 00:12:53,389 all these new agey circles where 301 00:12:57,260 --> 00:12:54,960 everyone just believes at 302 00:12:59,150 --> 00:12:57,270 reasoning the person says so Alex I 303 00:13:02,710 --> 00:12:59,160 actually really appreciate you over 304 00:13:05,390 --> 00:13:02,720 caution on this I personally feel this 305 00:13:07,310 --> 00:13:05,400 expressed raishin because I'm like a I'm 306 00:13:09,740 --> 00:13:07,320 a blogger religion blogger for the 307 00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:09,750 Huffington Post and what I've noticed is 308 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:12,750 if you actually blog about spirituality 309 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:14,970 the actual essence our experience of it 310 00:13:21,410 --> 00:13:18,060 it's hard for them to post if you blog 311 00:13:22,910 --> 00:13:21,420 around things you know then you can get 312 00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:22,920 it out there but it's it's like a 313 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:25,500 watering down that constantly has to 314 00:13:29,270 --> 00:13:27,330 happen that said I'm still grateful 315 00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:29,280 there's some type of bridge two men 316 00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:33,420 mainstream culture wow you know it's a 317 00:13:38,090 --> 00:13:34,800 lot every time you say that there's like 318 00:13:41,390 --> 00:13:38,100 14 different directions I could go but 319 00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:41,400 let's just hone in on that because it 320 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:43,800 kind of surprises me in a really 321 00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:47,570 interesting way of the the spirituality 322 00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:50,940 angle I think what I hear you saying is 323 00:13:58,610 --> 00:13:55,260 people go yada yada spirituality and yet 324 00:14:02,300 --> 00:13:58,620 when you dive into it and say oh no it's 325 00:14:05,510 --> 00:14:02,310 a progressive New Age Christian 326 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:05,520 ayahuasca church boom now at least 327 00:14:09,050 --> 00:14:07,290 you've connected on some level and you 328 00:14:11,270 --> 00:14:09,060 can start having a dialogue that brings 329 00:14:13,190 --> 00:14:11,280 it back to to something that people have 330 00:14:15,050 --> 00:14:13,200 a reaction to am I getting that right 331 00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:15,060 are like totally getting that wrong I 332 00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:16,710 mean I have to say you lost me I mean 333 00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:18,270 what I would never say that dime a is an 334 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:20,190 a new age thing it's the one of the most 335 00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:22,770 intense disciplines I've ever come 336 00:14:27,470 --> 00:14:24,720 across I mean imagine doing meditation 337 00:14:30,050 --> 00:14:27,480 on why does New Age get such a bad name 338 00:14:32,030 --> 00:14:30,060 I guess I've been guilty of of slamming 339 00:14:34,090 --> 00:14:32,040 it too we know what new agey means but 340 00:14:38,690 --> 00:14:34,100 isn't the right doesn't it need to be 341 00:14:41,230 --> 00:14:38,700 rehabilitated and reintroduced I'm a 342 00:14:46,630 --> 00:14:41,240 believer in some words unfixable like 343 00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:46,640 I'll give you a few a new h activist 344 00:14:52,670 --> 00:14:50,190 hippie I think all of these are there so 345 00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:52,680 late in activists activists from an 346 00:14:55,610 --> 00:14:54,300 activist you know what I'm going to 347 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:55,620 totally switch gears you got to tell 348 00:14:59,480 --> 00:14:57,690 people who are listening to this and are 349 00:15:02,680 --> 00:14:59,490 kind of already spaced out in this 350 00:15:06,770 --> 00:15:02,690 conversation about Johnny America and 351 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:06,780 that path that part of your life yeah so 352 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:08,490 I was working for this 353 00:15:13,790 --> 00:15:11,370 11 funds ongoing were ongoing recovering 354 00:15:16,340 --> 00:15:13,800 program and I was very moved by the 355 00:15:20,060 --> 00:15:16,350 people there that was so upset of George 356 00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:20,070 Bush creating wars for what they thought 357 00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:21,540 were like political gain and they were 358 00:15:26,660 --> 00:15:24,480 using September 11 to enact you know 359 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:26,670 some real atrocities I feel and I feel 360 00:15:31,699 --> 00:15:28,290 like now that looking back on it we can 361 00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:31,709 look at Iraq in Afghanistan and say wow 362 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:33,060 we should have thought a little more 363 00:15:38,510 --> 00:15:36,570 yeah really right and so at that time I 364 00:15:41,180 --> 00:15:38,520 was so frustrated and I wanted to do 365 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:41,190 something uh because of that work at the 366 00:15:44,990 --> 00:15:43,050 September loving fun to get involved and 367 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:45,000 I had this I'm an artist and I had been 368 00:15:49,940 --> 00:15:47,130 to burning man so I had this kind of 369 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:49,950 wild-eyed idea to lead an american 370 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:52,770 revolution against King George the 371 00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:55,050 second in his corporate tyranny and so 372 00:16:01,480 --> 00:15:57,180 it was these media pranks pranks we did 373 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:01,490 where we dressed up his very fancy shiny 374 00:16:06,139 --> 00:16:04,170 Patriots it was like if you took bootsy 375 00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:06,149 collins and Benjamin Franklin and put 376 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:08,100 them into like some particle accelerator 377 00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:10,860 you would have gotten this out of it you 378 00:16:14,329 --> 00:16:12,360 know in the media loved it like we were 379 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:14,339 in Time magazine I was on the cover of 380 00:16:19,460 --> 00:16:17,610 New York magazine a lot of media and I 381 00:16:21,710 --> 00:16:19,470 think like the five hundred thousand 382 00:16:23,329 --> 00:16:21,720 other people that were protests there 383 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:23,339 was the largest protest ever against the 384 00:16:28,579 --> 00:16:25,970 political convention in New York City um 385 00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:28,589 you know I thought political action 386 00:16:32,540 --> 00:16:30,510 alone could change the day and then what 387 00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:32,550 happened is he won that election and I 388 00:16:36,199 --> 00:16:34,529 looked at the last year of my life I 389 00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:36,209 mean activists are always talking about 390 00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:40,350 burnout and I would burn out and just 391 00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:42,720 looking at the global situation and a 392 00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:44,100 lot of that Garden of Eden stuff we were 393 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:46,350 talking about and I just thought my god 394 00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:49,050 we need a paradigm shift Democrat 395 00:16:55,190 --> 00:16:52,440 Republican none of these institutions 396 00:16:58,130 --> 00:16:55,200 are even unfit to face the Titanic 397 00:16:59,840 --> 00:16:58,140 problems we're looking at and you know I 398 00:17:01,220 --> 00:16:59,850 was looking for a paradigm shift and as 399 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:01,230 you might remember the book my 400 00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:02,970 girlfriend jade who I think is an 401 00:17:09,470 --> 00:17:05,160 awesome character in the book I love her 402 00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:09,480 character but she tells me that I've 403 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:11,040 been stressed about politics and 404 00:17:15,679 --> 00:17:13,170 paradigm shift for months and I need to 405 00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:15,689 take some MDMA and get my ass on the 406 00:17:18,669 --> 00:17:17,209 dance floor 407 00:17:20,919 --> 00:17:18,679 in that night for the first time in 408 00:17:24,490 --> 00:17:20,929 months I got out of my head I got into 409 00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:24,500 my heart into my body and I connected 410 00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:26,240 with the people around me in community 411 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:28,549 and this energy was moving through me as 412 00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:31,250 higher vibrational energy and by the end 413 00:17:36,730 --> 00:17:33,950 of the night poof the lights turned on 414 00:17:38,740 --> 00:17:36,740 and I could start seeing what I now 415 00:17:40,899 --> 00:17:38,750 understand our energy feel some people 416 00:17:43,269 --> 00:17:40,909 might say this auras around people and 417 00:17:45,460 --> 00:17:43,279 things which was really hard to 418 00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:45,470 integrate for a long time you let's talk 419 00:17:49,269 --> 00:17:47,390 about that integration and let's also 420 00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:49,279 talk about the drug use because 421 00:17:52,930 --> 00:17:50,809 obviously that's going to be highly 422 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:52,940 controversial with a lot of people you 423 00:17:59,080 --> 00:17:55,970 know I did ecstasy and I it opened me up 424 00:18:01,240 --> 00:17:59,090 to these energy fields in amin bio 425 00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:01,250 energy healer you know that's just going 426 00:18:05,019 --> 00:18:02,960 to strike people it's gonna it's going 427 00:18:07,299 --> 00:18:05,029 to get a reaction and the you know the I 428 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:07,309 did DMT and I kept doing more and more 429 00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,690 and more Dave's telling me doing more 430 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:11,120 more more and I opened up you know what 431 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:14,090 I want you to kind of address that head 432 00:18:18,220 --> 00:18:15,529 on because I've heard you do it and I 433 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:18,230 think you're very thoughtful and have 434 00:18:27,220 --> 00:18:22,510 some deep insights into how and when 435 00:18:29,289 --> 00:18:27,230 these other substances might work with 436 00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:29,299 our consciousness in a way that actually 437 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:32,240 moves us forward but i wonder if you 438 00:18:37,539 --> 00:18:35,690 also have thoughts on when maybe it's 439 00:18:40,269 --> 00:18:37,549 not such a good idea oh yeah i mean and 440 00:18:41,860 --> 00:18:40,279 there's most times that alternative 441 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:41,870 substances are not a good idea and 442 00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:43,730 that's how i see them used in society i 443 00:18:49,299 --> 00:18:45,590 sent a little judgmental there let me 444 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:49,309 pull back my tone a little bit cuz you 445 00:18:57,370 --> 00:18:51,890 know we're humans it's a risky dangerous 446 00:18:59,440 --> 00:18:57,380 place as it is but um yeah so that's a 447 00:19:01,659 --> 00:18:59,450 criticism I have is oh this guy's not a 448 00:19:04,389 --> 00:19:01,669 serious speak serious spiritual seeker 449 00:19:07,210 --> 00:19:04,399 he took a pill and thought he saw 450 00:19:09,639 --> 00:19:07,220 something you know that's cheating and 451 00:19:12,639 --> 00:19:09,649 I'm sure you go on amazon com and see a 452 00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:12,649 review or two it like that um but you're 453 00:19:17,230 --> 00:19:14,240 gonna see a lot more that say wow he's 454 00:19:19,980 --> 00:19:17,240 spot on and I feel like this is very 455 00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:19,990 ancient what was going on there is 456 00:19:25,659 --> 00:19:24,049 taking a psychoactive entheogenic i 457 00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:25,669 think is the word I would use and yo 458 00:19:30,210 --> 00:19:27,860 jenna got in inducing substances and 459 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:30,220 coming together as community 460 00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:32,490 singing and dancing as old as it gets 461 00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:35,200 nobody's gonna I hope go to some Native 462 00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:37,840 American and be like you know what you 463 00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:39,220 really shouldn't take that peyote and 464 00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:43,600 sing those prayer songs and I feel like 465 00:19:48,570 --> 00:19:46,000 this neo tribal revival happening with 466 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:48,580 the festival culture they re visiting 467 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:52,510 that in ways that said I also see a lot 468 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:54,610 of people at festivals that are like a 469 00:19:58,560 --> 00:19:56,650 man I've done mushrooms and I did it 470 00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:58,570 some ecstasy and I did this and I'm like 471 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:01,600 whoa whoa whoa have you eaten today are 472 00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:04,330 you grounding they don't even know to 473 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:06,400 connect our prey with the medicine that 474 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:09,370 they're taking personally no I wouldn't 475 00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:11,770 I probably will never do MDMA again 476 00:20:15,810 --> 00:20:13,990 because I'm on a deeper initiates path I 477 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:15,820 only work with the medicines of my 478 00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:18,490 tradition which happened to be descent 479 00:20:23,130 --> 00:20:20,230 the diamond which is this version of 480 00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:23,140 ayahuasca and the great thing about is 481 00:20:28,140 --> 00:20:25,120 it's a plant accelerator it's like 482 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:28,150 rocket fuel so if you use it very safely 483 00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:30,970 like a dime a dozen of the strictest 484 00:20:35,940 --> 00:20:33,480 rigid containers I've ever come across 485 00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:35,950 you can owe you can clean out your 486 00:20:42,029 --> 00:20:38,799 system the energetic system very quickly 487 00:20:43,860 --> 00:20:42,039 you can illuminate the electric energy 488 00:20:47,610 --> 00:20:43,870 body which is what most mystical 489 00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,620 traditions talk about quicker but if you 490 00:20:52,289 --> 00:20:49,840 use it improperly and I see plenty of 491 00:20:54,299 --> 00:20:52,299 ayahuasca use like homebrewers or they 492 00:20:56,250 --> 00:20:54,309 go to the Amazon and they go to keep 493 00:20:57,690 --> 00:20:56,260 those which is that like the time to 494 00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:57,700 keep those Peru it's like The Times 495 00:21:02,070 --> 00:20:59,919 Square of ayahuasca and they end up with 496 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:02,080 a bad shaman and dark stuff can get in 497 00:21:07,970 --> 00:21:05,130 so we really need to learn protection 498 00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:07,980 reverence responsibility 499 00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:10,960 self-actualization and have a mature 500 00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:12,880 relationship around it I think one of 501 00:21:17,730 --> 00:21:14,830 the reasons we have an immature 502 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:17,740 relationship around consciousness 503 00:21:21,690 --> 00:21:19,450 altering substances is because of their 504 00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:21,700 kind of prohibited in weird ways i think 505 00:21:27,060 --> 00:21:23,919 the drug we have the most issues with is 506 00:21:28,850 --> 00:21:27,070 alcohol the misbehavior i see in new 507 00:21:32,010 --> 00:21:28,860 york city with alcohol and just 508 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:32,020 recklessness that happens here is is 509 00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:36,250 quite concerning to me sure but to lot 510 00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,049 you've now kind of stepped into 511 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:41,440 territory that has a lot of mine fields 512 00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:44,290 in it and graham hancock again 513 00:21:47,580 --> 00:21:45,910 the introduction to your book and did a 514 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:47,590 very nice job of it and is of course 515 00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:51,130 well known for chronicling his own use 516 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:54,720 with ayahuasca and other substances has 517 00:21:59,700 --> 00:21:56,770 you know and I and you probably wear 518 00:22:03,750 --> 00:21:59,710 this but he's talked about connecting 519 00:22:06,270 --> 00:22:03,760 with the spirit a spirit entity that is 520 00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:06,280 associated with ayahuasca and he has 521 00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:09,280 found that in his work or his research 522 00:22:13,050 --> 00:22:11,260 if you want to call it that that the 523 00:22:15,630 --> 00:22:13,060 shamans he's worked with have said yes 524 00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:15,640 there is one spirit entity that is 525 00:22:20,910 --> 00:22:18,430 behind ayahuasca so you know what 526 00:22:24,030 --> 00:22:20,920 there's a lot of different places we can 527 00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:24,040 go here but now we're into connecting 528 00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:25,900 with you know if we take that at face 529 00:22:32,550 --> 00:22:30,040 value we're at using this plant that is 530 00:22:35,250 --> 00:22:32,560 somehow altering our consciousness and 531 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:35,260 we're connecting with some other spirit 532 00:22:40,050 --> 00:22:37,450 body that we don't know anything about 533 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:40,060 and now you're talking about we have to 534 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:42,250 use it carefully and you're trying to 535 00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:44,170 put the FDA warning on it and stuff like 536 00:22:49,620 --> 00:22:46,630 that aren't we just in in in just a 537 00:22:52,860 --> 00:22:49,630 minefield of questions that we can't 538 00:22:55,710 --> 00:22:52,870 even begin to to answer should we be 539 00:22:58,830 --> 00:22:55,720 going there should we even venture into 540 00:23:01,500 --> 00:22:58,840 that can't we just sit at home cross our 541 00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:01,510 legs and meditate well sure you can do 542 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:03,520 that I mean where I'm coming to it 543 00:23:07,020 --> 00:23:05,290 that's what I'm saying it's everyone's 544 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:07,030 journey for one it's not me to say 545 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:08,710 anyone should or shouldn't do any of 546 00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:10,450 this you know I'm just sharing 547 00:23:16,170 --> 00:23:13,600 experiences of my life no no I'm don't 548 00:23:18,330 --> 00:23:16,180 get me wrong I'm not I'm not criticizing 549 00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:18,340 you and I love that you're out there 550 00:23:23,010 --> 00:23:20,980 sharing it but you know so but let me 551 00:23:24,540 --> 00:23:23,020 get back and fine-tune that question 552 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:24,550 fine tune that question what about the 553 00:23:28,770 --> 00:23:27,130 spirit behind ayahuasca is that 554 00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:28,780 something we need to worry about well 555 00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:30,640 first I want to say I don't mind if you 556 00:23:34,830 --> 00:23:33,310 criticize I'm just like you know I'm 557 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:34,840 just here trying but I'm not I'm not all 558 00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:36,490 that you know what about that because 559 00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:38,440 I'm just being honest you know things 560 00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:40,000 strike me in a certain way I'm just you 561 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:41,110 know I'm trying to be honest and not 562 00:23:45,570 --> 00:23:43,210 being right or good anymore just just 563 00:23:48,420 --> 00:23:45,580 honest and authentic and vulnerable as 564 00:23:51,410 --> 00:23:48,430 much as I can and when I'm coming to 565 00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:51,420 terms with this for me look the I'm a 566 00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:53,740 diamond is different than ayahuasca I'm 567 00:23:58,430 --> 00:23:56,320 a is considered connected to this Christ 568 00:24:00,820 --> 00:23:58,440 consciousness energy this divine 569 00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:00,830 very healing vibrational high-energy 570 00:24:06,169 --> 00:24:03,809 ayahuasca I don't trust as much because 571 00:24:08,749 --> 00:24:06,179 I hear about dark shamans I've seen dark 572 00:24:10,940 --> 00:24:08,759 shamans that use it in life dime a is 573 00:24:12,649 --> 00:24:10,950 very specific like it's a whole doctrine 574 00:24:15,259 --> 00:24:12,659 of love and light and healing in the 575 00:24:18,769 --> 00:24:15,269 transformation of ourselves and even 576 00:24:22,850 --> 00:24:18,779 suffering souls that that need help so I 577 00:24:24,499 --> 00:24:22,860 really trusted but that said I probably 578 00:24:27,799 --> 00:24:24,509 would never do ayahuasca and I would 579 00:24:30,379 --> 00:24:27,809 dude I'm a but I used to do like two or 580 00:24:33,009 --> 00:24:30,389 three ceremonies a month I and it was 581 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:33,019 very healing but it was also very 582 00:24:38,419 --> 00:24:36,210 difficult on my system because you're 583 00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:38,429 challenged so psychologically in the 584 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:41,460 body and the mind everything and so now 585 00:24:46,490 --> 00:24:43,710 I'll do it like once a month because i 586 00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:46,500 need that healing but it's just a calmer 587 00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:49,039 and so i'm doing a lot more yoga and 588 00:24:55,129 --> 00:24:52,080 meditation and these things to integrate 589 00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:55,139 it all that said the most profound yoga 590 00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:58,080 experiences i have are through santa 591 00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:02,159 maria which is sacralized marijuana or 592 00:25:07,249 --> 00:25:04,830 cannabis in the dike may some of the 593 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:07,259 traditions they pray they do the rosary 594 00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:09,450 and they consider Santa Maria really 595 00:25:13,879 --> 00:25:11,070 correct connected to like this kind of 596 00:25:15,619 --> 00:25:13,889 virgin the Virgin Mother and also the 597 00:25:17,060 --> 00:25:15,629 queen of the forest there's not really 598 00:25:18,769 --> 00:25:17,070 an either-or in the diamond it's not 599 00:25:21,409 --> 00:25:18,779 like oh it's the Virgin Mother it's the 600 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:21,419 queen of the floor is the cosmic mother 601 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:23,490 you know I feel like the diamond 602 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:26,850 understands how fluid in complex the 603 00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:29,250 universe is it's not creating rigid 604 00:25:35,509 --> 00:25:32,370 boundaries or ideas so I do this and I 605 00:25:38,869 --> 00:25:35,519 gotta say man working with the spirit of 606 00:25:41,149 --> 00:25:38,879 Santa Maria very carefully maybe once a 607 00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:41,159 week it's really upped my yoga practice 608 00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:44,370 I go to classes but I just understand it 609 00:25:48,139 --> 00:25:46,590 more an energetic level and what 610 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:48,149 teachers had been trying to tell me for 611 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:50,610 years I get now much more I finally I'm 612 00:25:54,499 --> 00:25:53,129 starting to understand I I'm trying to 613 00:25:56,090 --> 00:25:54,509 thank God I don't want to keep asking 614 00:25:57,649 --> 00:25:56,100 the same questions I you know I guess 615 00:26:00,680 --> 00:25:57,659 the question keeps going through my mind 616 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:00,690 is how does someone know if they're 617 00:26:06,769 --> 00:26:03,570 supposed to open themselves up in this 618 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:06,779 way through these substances okay so I'd 619 00:26:11,419 --> 00:26:09,090 like to answer this in two ways first I 620 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:11,429 see with ayahuasca is if people are 621 00:26:14,750 --> 00:26:12,330 either called 622 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:14,760 or they're not if they're called they'll 623 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:16,890 find it because it's still schedule 1 624 00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:18,570 substance in the u.s. even though it's 625 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:20,100 one of the most healing medicines I've 626 00:26:25,909 --> 00:26:22,890 ever come across I don't know how 627 00:26:28,669 --> 00:26:25,919 tobacco is legal in ayahuasca is not but 628 00:26:31,070 --> 00:26:28,679 um you know they're called to it and 629 00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:31,080 they'll find it and then usually I'll go 630 00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:33,710 well if they're kind of half-ass it 631 00:26:37,549 --> 00:26:36,240 doesn't come around usually are they 632 00:26:39,019 --> 00:26:37,559 force it and then they might end in 633 00:26:41,060 --> 00:26:39,029 trouble I think people really need to 634 00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:41,070 feel a calling to something and if 635 00:26:44,539 --> 00:26:42,750 you're not called don't go there trust 636 00:26:47,090 --> 00:26:44,549 your inner self we're just taught not to 637 00:26:49,129 --> 00:26:47,100 trust our inner self all the time like 638 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:49,139 this is a message I just like to give to 639 00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:51,090 everyone out there is like maybe we 640 00:26:54,350 --> 00:26:52,350 could end the dialogue should we 641 00:26:57,980 --> 00:26:54,360 shouldn't and it could be more of like 642 00:27:01,759 --> 00:26:57,990 what is right for you how is it 643 00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:01,769 integrated any uni who you are okay so 644 00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:04,080 that said I just want to put a framework 645 00:27:10,399 --> 00:27:06,480 as I think we're working from a kind of 646 00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:10,409 a misconceived perception on drug and 647 00:27:14,930 --> 00:27:12,720 non-drug I don't even call these drugs i 648 00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:14,940 call them entheogens and medicine drug 649 00:27:21,049 --> 00:27:18,049 is for me prozac or aspirin or something 650 00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:21,059 this is like a homeopathic remedies or 651 00:27:27,470 --> 00:27:25,049 something are herbal that said I really 652 00:27:31,419 --> 00:27:27,480 want to just say Alex so that I've world 653 00:27:34,220 --> 00:27:31,429 we are feeling sentient beings and 654 00:27:38,419 --> 00:27:34,230 everything we touch everything we ingest 655 00:27:39,950 --> 00:27:38,429 is a conscious altering experience so if 656 00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:39,960 you're around loving people and they're 657 00:27:44,330 --> 00:27:42,000 opening your heart it opens your heart 658 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:44,340 to change your consciousness if you eat 659 00:27:49,549 --> 00:27:47,730 a lot of processed sugar that is a 660 00:27:52,129 --> 00:27:49,559 conscious altering substance that can 661 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:52,139 really affect you if you eat ginger all 662 00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:53,850 of these things if we can start 663 00:27:59,450 --> 00:27:56,159 understanding ourselves as living 664 00:28:01,870 --> 00:27:59,460 feeling breathing beings and sensors 665 00:28:05,419 --> 00:28:01,880 that are connected to the world suddenly 666 00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:05,429 this line that we draw between things 667 00:28:09,409 --> 00:28:07,620 kind of starts to disappear and this 668 00:28:11,509 --> 00:28:09,419 surprise new 80s I'm going to get but 669 00:28:14,029 --> 00:28:11,519 any energy healer that's connected and 670 00:28:16,009 --> 00:28:14,039 like can if you tap your hand into a 671 00:28:18,019 --> 00:28:16,019 crystal and start feeling those those 672 00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:18,029 frequencies the energy because the 673 00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:19,679 geometries of that energy is all 674 00:28:24,620 --> 00:28:22,049 geometry in the end and textures and 675 00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:24,630 stuff and colors you can start absorbing 676 00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:25,440 that through your 677 00:28:31,399 --> 00:28:28,289 and through your heart you can actually 678 00:28:33,769 --> 00:28:31,409 start getting healings and I we all have 679 00:28:35,629 --> 00:28:33,779 negative energies in us and they turn 680 00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:35,639 into disease and looks like that and 681 00:28:39,049 --> 00:28:37,620 there's some other ways we can heal that 682 00:28:42,169 --> 00:28:39,059 we're not aware of because we don't 683 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:42,179 understand how sentient we really are 684 00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:44,610 awesome talk great it seems like 685 00:28:50,090 --> 00:28:45,960 everything I've been doing isn't it 686 00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:50,100 going into a minefield well you know 687 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:52,529 that's the that's the terrain I mean 688 00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:54,330 that is that's that's your maybe that's 689 00:28:58,669 --> 00:28:56,100 your mission man I mean look at your 690 00:29:00,590 --> 00:28:58,679 life look at your experience so far and 691 00:29:03,499 --> 00:29:00,600 you know that's the story you've written 692 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:03,509 so you can't you can't write yourself 693 00:29:08,749 --> 00:29:06,330 out of a plot in look your mission is 694 00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:08,759 you are a Bridger and a translator so 695 00:29:13,009 --> 00:29:11,070 you know maybe what the dialogue we're 696 00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:13,019 having here is I'm kind of leaning off 697 00:29:16,669 --> 00:29:14,429 the edge a little bit and you're holding 698 00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:16,679 a handout and calling back to some other 699 00:29:22,369 --> 00:29:19,740 folks and being like hey what's going on 700 00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:22,379 the edge the other thing that I think 701 00:29:28,759 --> 00:29:25,350 I'm trying to do because I struggle with 702 00:29:30,289 --> 00:29:28,769 it myself is there's a lot of people 703 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:30,299 leaning off the boat on all different 704 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:33,210 sides and I'm comfortable with that but 705 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:35,490 I also have a side of me that says hey 706 00:29:40,580 --> 00:29:38,610 why aren't these two together you know 707 00:29:43,419 --> 00:29:40,590 why is this person leaning that way and 708 00:29:45,409 --> 00:29:43,429 I like them respect them and appreciate 709 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:45,419 their path and what they've gone through 710 00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:47,970 and their experience then why is this 711 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:50,340 person saying something else and I'm 712 00:29:55,460 --> 00:29:53,250 okay with there can be many paths and 713 00:29:58,249 --> 00:29:55,470 there can be this diversity but I want 714 00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:58,259 things to kind of make a little bit more 715 00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,000 sense in this world I don't want to talk 716 00:30:06,460 --> 00:30:03,120 to one person who says reincarnation is 717 00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:06,470 a myth it isn't real I've gone and 718 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:09,120 ascended and it doesn't happen and then 719 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:10,490 speak to someone else and say 720 00:30:14,779 --> 00:30:12,330 reincarnation yes but you only 721 00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:14,789 reincarnate three times and then I talk 722 00:30:19,399 --> 00:30:17,700 to another person very advanced someone 723 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:19,409 I'd really like just talk to and said 724 00:30:23,740 --> 00:30:20,970 hey forget about the whole idea of 725 00:30:25,999 --> 00:30:23,750 reincarnation we are simultaneously 726 00:30:27,889 --> 00:30:26,009 reincarnating all the time that's the 727 00:30:30,139 --> 00:30:27,899 only way we can explain this idea of 728 00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:30,149 time being kind of this illusion that 729 00:30:33,980 --> 00:30:32,399 we're in so we got all these people and 730 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:33,990 then you come along and you're saying a 731 00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:35,970 really beautiful thing I like what you 732 00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:38,700 said about you know reframing the 733 00:30:45,790 --> 00:30:43,200 role of our if our body is in our brain 734 00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:45,800 is this vessel that is tuning 735 00:30:51,650 --> 00:30:48,960 consciousness then realize that we're 736 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:51,660 constantly messing with the tuning no 737 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:53,010 matter what we're doing with that bag of 738 00:30:58,700 --> 00:30:56,250 potato chips with that cigarette or with 739 00:31:00,860 --> 00:30:58,710 the ayahuasca and those are conscious 740 00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:00,870 choices that we can make at different 741 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:02,880 times but do you understand my dilemma 742 00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:06,330 in trying to get all these people on the 743 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:08,460 boat kind of talking in the same 744 00:31:13,550 --> 00:31:10,410 language so I can figure out what to do 745 00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:13,560 oh yeah I love your dilemma um you know 746 00:31:17,060 --> 00:31:16,020 you talked about that that what I heard 747 00:31:19,220 --> 00:31:17,070 when you were talking about being 748 00:31:20,990 --> 00:31:19,230 sentient being like reflecting what I 749 00:31:23,270 --> 00:31:21,000 had said about realizing where these 750 00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:23,280 feelings sensing beings is when we do 751 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:24,480 that we can walk with a lot more 752 00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:27,330 consciousness of our actions you know 753 00:31:32,210 --> 00:31:29,670 and how we interact you know you read my 754 00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:32,220 book so you've kind of got you have you 755 00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:34,320 follow the full journey from complete 756 00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:36,240 skeptic too little experience little 757 00:31:39,260 --> 00:31:37,470 experience in that we kind of jumped 758 00:31:41,090 --> 00:31:39,270 right into some stuff I think if people 759 00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:41,100 read the book that you know it's got a 760 00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:43,740 trajectory I haven't had anyone said I 761 00:31:47,570 --> 00:31:45,960 can't follow that journey when they're 762 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:47,580 doing it even atheists have read the 763 00:31:51,770 --> 00:31:48,930 book of kind of me like that was cool 764 00:31:54,350 --> 00:31:51,780 but in the book I'm very conscious of 765 00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:54,360 not saying anything is absolute you know 766 00:31:58,270 --> 00:31:56,910 I never say like let's take Jesus for an 767 00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:58,280 example one of the many questions I get 768 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:01,440 what is Jesus did he really exists was 769 00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:03,690 it this is he a cosmic implant is it 770 00:32:09,020 --> 00:32:06,390 some argue type and my answer is I don't 771 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:09,030 know I just hold the pot the quantum 772 00:32:15,910 --> 00:32:12,330 possibilities of it all being possible 773 00:32:19,730 --> 00:32:15,920 in using discretion to work within that 774 00:32:21,650 --> 00:32:19,740 I because when you really find fixed 775 00:32:23,030 --> 00:32:21,660 something and say this is absolute in 776 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:23,040 quantum physics you know they call it 777 00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,690 collapsing the wave you just collapse 778 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:26,640 all these other possibility into one 779 00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:28,530 thing and it's kind of a like a party 780 00:32:33,530 --> 00:32:31,950 bummer really and I experienced that 781 00:32:34,610 --> 00:32:33,540 firsthand there's this author I don't 782 00:32:36,290 --> 00:32:34,620 know if you've heard of him Timothy 783 00:32:39,050 --> 00:32:36,300 freak who wrote the Jesus Merce 784 00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:39,060 mysteries sure and I saw him and he said 785 00:32:44,750 --> 00:32:40,860 live in front of a whole gnostic group I 786 00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:44,760 was kind of a coordinating Jesus did not 787 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:47,790 exist absolutely this human never walked 788 00:32:52,820 --> 00:32:50,010 the planet in my whole Gnostic group 789 00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:52,830 left like pissed off in and we love this 790 00:32:58,220 --> 00:32:54,990 guy but we were like wow how can he say 791 00:33:00,350 --> 00:32:58,230 like unless he was there investigating 792 00:33:02,210 --> 00:33:00,360 all the lands of you know is all the 793 00:33:05,539 --> 00:33:02,220 time maybe he could possibly say that's 794 00:33:07,159 --> 00:33:05,549 true and so he collapsed away for us and 795 00:33:10,730 --> 00:33:07,169 like I said it was kind of a party 796 00:33:12,110 --> 00:33:10,740 bummer really so you note a lot one 797 00:33:15,710 --> 00:33:12,120 thing I want to talk about before you 798 00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:15,720 run out of too much time is this evolved 799 00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:19,350 or.net thing that you've helped found 800 00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:21,769 and that you're a part of its 801 00:33:26,419 --> 00:33:24,179 fascinating experiment told people 802 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:26,429 what's going on what is Evolver net well 803 00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:29,370 uh just I think I gotta explain how it 804 00:33:33,470 --> 00:33:31,769 started which was I had actually gone 805 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:33,480 through this initiative journey of 806 00:33:37,789 --> 00:33:35,490 mystic mcrib mystical experiences and 807 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:37,799 such being a countercultural guy as well 808 00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:41,010 and I wanted to get back into activism 809 00:33:45,230 --> 00:33:43,500 but a different type I didn't want to do 810 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:45,240 the same kind of stuff going through 811 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:48,210 mainstream media and having them smash 812 00:33:53,090 --> 00:33:50,250 and squash all all your beautiful 813 00:33:55,759 --> 00:33:53,100 stories into either taking out the 814 00:33:58,250 --> 00:33:55,769 essence are being cynical and at that 815 00:34:00,740 --> 00:33:58,260 time i ran into Daniel Pinchbeck author 816 00:34:03,529 --> 00:34:00,750 of 2012 the return of quetzalcoatl Ken 817 00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:03,539 Jordan a digital democracy pioneer in 818 00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:06,240 this artist Michael Robinson and they 819 00:34:09,619 --> 00:34:07,529 were starting up a magazine called 820 00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:09,629 reality sandwich and as soon as I saw 821 00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:11,820 that I was like I'm on board because it 822 00:34:16,010 --> 00:34:13,679 was exactly what I wanted to do it was 823 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:16,020 media activism about transformation and 824 00:34:21,139 --> 00:34:18,810 all these guys and it started off as 825 00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:21,149 dudes we now have a lot of women were 826 00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:23,220 running the organization which I'm happy 827 00:34:27,919 --> 00:34:26,129 about but we we had all been kind of 828 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:27,929 these counterculture activists artists 829 00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:30,450 writer guys and we suddenly had these 830 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:32,879 mystical experiences and became 831 00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:34,530 interested in like buckminster fuller 832 00:34:40,609 --> 00:34:38,639 design science and shamanism and open 833 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:40,619 space technology and complementary 834 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:42,210 currencies we saw all these different 835 00:34:47,869 --> 00:34:45,330 avenues the green movement being 836 00:34:49,730 --> 00:34:47,879 interconnected and so we launched this 837 00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:49,740 website reality sandwich where we could 838 00:34:54,859 --> 00:34:52,260 share our stories with vulture to see 839 00:34:56,510 --> 00:34:54,869 who who's out there and very soon we 840 00:34:59,480 --> 00:34:56,520 gathered a pretty dedicated 841 00:35:00,770 --> 00:34:59,490 international audience but what we saw 842 00:35:02,540 --> 00:35:00,780 is they didn't want to just stay online 843 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:02,550 they really wanted to transform their 844 00:35:06,770 --> 00:35:04,890 communities so we started up what we 845 00:35:07,170 --> 00:35:06,780 called evolved our spoor is based on the 846 00:35:09,180 --> 00:35:07,180 might 847 00:35:11,370 --> 00:35:09,190 silly ol interconnectedness poor 848 00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:11,380 networks out there that in nature that 849 00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:14,079 creates so much abundant life and they 850 00:35:19,470 --> 00:35:15,460 kind of share information with each 851 00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:19,480 other and we started regional chapters 852 00:35:26,130 --> 00:35:22,510 and we now have 50 evolver spore 853 00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:26,140 chapters out there who it's great they 854 00:35:29,309 --> 00:35:27,790 host alternative film screenings for 855 00:35:32,010 --> 00:35:29,319 movies that have no other place to go 856 00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:32,020 like wake up or thrive or that kind of 857 00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:34,420 thing book tours I got to do an amazing 858 00:35:41,339 --> 00:35:36,910 book tour around the country in Canada 859 00:35:44,250 --> 00:35:41,349 as well eco festivals cleaning up 860 00:35:46,410 --> 00:35:44,260 beaches permaculture gardens they 861 00:35:48,690 --> 00:35:46,420 started a local currency in Baltimore 862 00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:48,700 help that that's not on 200 stores 863 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:50,680 they've started time banks and give 864 00:35:55,319 --> 00:35:53,290 circles so a lot of positive good 865 00:35:58,530 --> 00:35:55,329 transformational things you know we've 866 00:36:00,990 --> 00:35:58,540 had a very esoteric conversation but I'm 867 00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:01,000 a really practical person and so are the 868 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:02,800 people in evolve and reality sandwich so 869 00:36:08,549 --> 00:36:05,770 we want to see this consciousness really 870 00:36:10,349 --> 00:36:08,559 grounding and taking root and maybe 871 00:36:13,049 --> 00:36:10,359 that's my problem with a lot of the New 872 00:36:15,930 --> 00:36:13,059 Age movement is it seems very 873 00:36:18,690 --> 00:36:15,940 self-absorbed workshops self-improvement 874 00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:18,700 that but it's not like how do we act in 875 00:36:22,589 --> 00:36:20,710 the world and maybe that's one of the 876 00:36:24,660 --> 00:36:22,599 reasons I'm so excited about like Jesus 877 00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:24,670 as a mystical figure is he's kind of a 878 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:27,089 yogi in an activist at the same time 879 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:30,130 turning over tables in the temple that 880 00:36:34,770 --> 00:36:32,530 kind of thing and also I'd like to say 881 00:36:36,809 --> 00:36:34,780 as an energy healer this is a larger 882 00:36:38,819 --> 00:36:36,819 scale project of mine I have a lot of 883 00:36:40,620 --> 00:36:38,829 individual clients and it's just such 884 00:36:43,650 --> 00:36:40,630 rewarding work seeing their lives 885 00:36:45,809 --> 00:36:43,660 transformed but i think is a society 886 00:36:47,549 --> 00:36:45,819 energetically where a house divided we 887 00:36:50,819 --> 00:36:47,559 fight for resources we fight for money 888 00:36:52,289 --> 00:36:50,829 jobs whatever it is and what Evolver 889 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:52,299 they'll all right after czar working on 890 00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:54,010 doing and they're a lot of others too we 891 00:36:59,220 --> 00:36:55,920 partner with a lot of other groups is 892 00:37:01,170 --> 00:36:59,230 I'm seeing I'm seeing develop as a more 893 00:37:03,630 --> 00:37:01,180 of a sacred geometry we're instead of 894 00:37:05,970 --> 00:37:03,640 blocking each other we start sharing 895 00:37:08,220 --> 00:37:05,980 each other's resources weaker these 896 00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:08,230 circles of energy that actually can 897 00:37:12,599 --> 00:37:09,460 create abundance since they're up 898 00:37:15,059 --> 00:37:12,609 steadily and flow the resources around 899 00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:15,069 in a way that they haven't with more of 900 00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,280 the hierarchical models yeah yeah yeah 901 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:20,320 I'd love to go there there's 902 00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:22,770 that there's just so many problems with 903 00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:26,160 activism there's some fundamental 904 00:37:32,250 --> 00:37:29,710 spiritual questions about whether we are 905 00:37:33,860 --> 00:37:32,260 supposed to act or whether we're just 906 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:33,870 posted there's there's a back door 907 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:36,930 materialism to activism that is 908 00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:41,290 inescapable and that is that isn't the 909 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:44,860 world perfect just the way that it is 910 00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:47,890 and isn't our awakening really awake and 911 00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:50,320 an awakening to that how do you how do 912 00:37:54,330 --> 00:37:52,000 you deal with that part i'm sure you've 913 00:37:56,910 --> 00:37:54,340 come across that how do you deal with 914 00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:56,920 that vibe if you will well i think 915 00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:58,720 that's a very deep study that you're 916 00:38:02,670 --> 00:38:00,400 talking about and it's 1 i'm starting to 917 00:38:04,050 --> 00:38:02,680 see with occupy people like evolver was 918 00:38:06,350 --> 00:38:04,060 very helpful for them and being like 919 00:38:09,630 --> 00:38:06,360 don't just complain about everything 920 00:38:11,370 --> 00:38:09,640 let's vision what what we can create so 921 00:38:13,890 --> 00:38:11,380 you know our model is really about 922 00:38:16,130 --> 00:38:13,900 creation and I think spirituality is 923 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,140 very creative I mean there's a reason 924 00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:18,400 you know what I think you asked a great 925 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:21,220 question Alex you want to cut out you 926 00:38:25,170 --> 00:38:23,410 invest about activism like there's this 927 00:38:27,810 --> 00:38:25,180 thing about activism which I thought was 928 00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:27,820 I liked that question i guess the part 929 00:38:32,330 --> 00:38:29,350 i'd like to hear you kind of talk a 930 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:32,340 little bit about is is this idea of 931 00:38:37,710 --> 00:38:34,930 materialism i mean if you buy into 932 00:38:39,660 --> 00:38:37,720 materialism both as an individual if you 933 00:38:41,310 --> 00:38:39,670 think you're a biological robot and 934 00:38:44,580 --> 00:38:41,320 that's all you are well man you're lost 935 00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:44,590 and if you buy into materialism as it 936 00:38:48,510 --> 00:38:46,510 exists in our society that we need to 937 00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:48,520 get all weekend and we need to go bomb 938 00:38:53,790 --> 00:38:51,310 other people all that stuff you're lost 939 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:53,800 but as soon as you cross that chasm and 940 00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:56,410 you say ok there's there's something 941 00:39:01,560 --> 00:38:58,720 more then i think you run into this 942 00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:01,570 problem of really exactly what we're 943 00:39:06,690 --> 00:39:04,270 talking about and that is materialism 944 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:06,700 keeps wanting to creep itself back into 945 00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:09,610 the equation from that questioning part 946 00:39:13,290 --> 00:39:11,260 that you're saying the limitless 947 00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:13,300 possibilities non collapse of the wave 948 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:16,030 function to this hey i need to take 949 00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:18,850 action here i need to go do this i need 950 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:22,030 to vote for this candidate i need to do 951 00:39:26,730 --> 00:39:24,490 that isn't there the risk there that we 952 00:39:28,860 --> 00:39:26,740 kind of get into this backdoor 953 00:39:31,830 --> 00:39:28,870 materialism again where we really think 954 00:39:33,940 --> 00:39:31,840 that we're building this stuff that's 955 00:39:35,710 --> 00:39:33,950 going to do this stuff for tomorrow 956 00:39:37,660 --> 00:39:35,720 oh you know what I'm saying isn't there 957 00:39:41,290 --> 00:39:37,670 a little bit of kind of creeping back 958 00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:41,300 into that we're in control thing oh yeah 959 00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:44,089 but I think it's bull we've once again a 960 00:39:48,730 --> 00:39:45,680 set up an either/or and I think it's 961 00:39:51,130 --> 00:39:48,740 both end because if I look at most of my 962 00:39:52,930 --> 00:39:51,140 clients most of them come in and think 963 00:39:55,690 --> 00:39:52,940 we're going to talk about past lives and 964 00:39:57,130 --> 00:39:55,700 this and that nice high most of them 965 00:39:59,079 --> 00:39:57,140 need to get in the material world a 966 00:40:02,349 --> 00:39:59,089 little bit they need to get in their 967 00:40:04,810 --> 00:40:02,359 bodies and you know find out find out 968 00:40:07,210 --> 00:40:04,820 how to figure out jobs and live an 969 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:07,220 abundant life you know that doesn't mean 970 00:40:12,130 --> 00:40:09,890 by a mansion but it just means to know 971 00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:12,140 how to support themselves and talk with 972 00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:14,060 people like like I don't want to deny 973 00:40:18,339 --> 00:40:16,640 that aspect because it is important and 974 00:40:20,740 --> 00:40:18,349 I denied it for many years of my 975 00:40:23,290 --> 00:40:20,750 existence and maybe that was why I was a 976 00:40:26,170 --> 00:40:23,300 marginalized activists on the other hand 977 00:40:28,510 --> 00:40:26,180 I definitely saw this with like occupy 978 00:40:31,780 --> 00:40:28,520 you know it was very frustrating for me 979 00:40:33,940 --> 00:40:31,790 seeing all the projected anger about the 980 00:40:35,380 --> 00:40:33,950 finance it's good to I actually believe 981 00:40:37,630 --> 00:40:35,390 I do a lot of anger work with clients 982 00:40:40,210 --> 00:40:37,640 it's good to express anger but when you 983 00:40:41,530 --> 00:40:40,220 projected at others it creates more that 984 00:40:43,930 --> 00:40:41,540 fear culture it's actually a violent 985 00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:43,940 energy projected and if we call that 986 00:40:48,339 --> 00:40:46,790 psychic attack and there was so much of 987 00:40:50,170 --> 00:40:48,349 that going so many projections and so 988 00:40:52,180 --> 00:40:50,180 much anger at this and you could tell it 989 00:40:54,730 --> 00:40:52,190 was one exhausting them out it wasn't 990 00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:54,740 just to the police or everyone else they 991 00:40:59,740 --> 00:40:56,720 were getting there's energy systems like 992 00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:59,750 depleted and what I like to evolve are 993 00:41:04,030 --> 00:41:01,520 in this is we're more of like oh how can 994 00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:04,040 you create how can you follow your bliss 995 00:41:08,890 --> 00:41:06,710 and your passions and do what you love 996 00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:08,900 and I think this is the Joseph Campbell 997 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:10,430 talks about this this is a dance we have 998 00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:13,970 of integrating kind of book I talk about 999 00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:15,710 this as serpent energy which is the 1000 00:41:20,290 --> 00:41:18,230 material the mother and the Dove or 1001 00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:20,300 eagle energy which is more of the spirit 1002 00:41:25,210 --> 00:41:22,180 and the Freedom and the flowing and 1003 00:41:27,309 --> 00:41:25,220 that's that's the beautiful cosmic dance 1004 00:41:30,819 --> 00:41:27,319 that you see actually really manifested 1005 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:30,829 in the dragon who is a being that's very 1006 00:41:36,370 --> 00:41:32,930 magical in Eastern cultures because they 1007 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:36,380 have managed sky and earth it all of 1008 00:41:41,170 --> 00:41:39,170 mastered all of the elements water these 1009 00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:41,180 things and so I think what you brought 1010 00:41:46,569 --> 00:41:43,310 up alex is a great study that we all do 1011 00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:46,579 it's an alchemy of walking as a human 1012 00:41:50,420 --> 00:41:47,250 and be 1013 00:41:52,190 --> 00:41:50,430 is a human on this planet it's being in 1014 00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:52,200 doing and creating a right relationship 1015 00:41:56,810 --> 00:41:55,020 between that you know that's awesome 1016 00:42:00,020 --> 00:41:56,820 plot and I think you've drawn out a 1017 00:42:03,230 --> 00:42:00,030 couple of really nice parallels there 1018 00:42:05,450 --> 00:42:03,240 between in this case non action and 1019 00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,460 action what I hear you saying is we're 1020 00:42:10,670 --> 00:42:07,920 all acting anyway so let's be more 1021 00:42:12,830 --> 00:42:10,680 conscious of the actions that we're 1022 00:42:15,230 --> 00:42:12,840 taking and I think you're doing the same 1023 00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:15,240 thing when you're talking about using 1024 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:18,240 any substances hey we're taking 1025 00:42:24,290 --> 00:42:20,850 substances into our body anyway let's 1026 00:42:27,350 --> 00:42:24,300 just be more aware of what substances 1027 00:42:29,540 --> 00:42:27,360 were taking in and how they're affecting 1028 00:42:33,110 --> 00:42:29,550 our ability to move towards whatever 1029 00:42:36,740 --> 00:42:33,120 we're trying to move towards so awesome 1030 00:42:39,110 --> 00:42:36,750 work man I can see why everyone so into 1031 00:42:41,180 --> 00:42:39,120 talaat Jonathan Phillips and the 1032 00:42:43,010 --> 00:42:41,190 electric jeezus tell us a little bit 1033 00:42:46,340 --> 00:42:43,020 about what else is going on with you 1034 00:42:49,940 --> 00:42:46,350 where people can find more about you or 1035 00:42:51,890 --> 00:42:49,950 find you in the flesh oh great yeah well 1036 00:42:54,770 --> 00:42:51,900 i'm moving to san francisco in a month 1037 00:42:56,750 --> 00:42:54,780 so i'm very excited about that and i 1038 00:42:58,790 --> 00:42:56,760 have international healing clients I'm 1039 00:43:00,320 --> 00:42:58,800 now moving part time with evolver to 1040 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:00,330 devote a lot more time to my healing 1041 00:43:07,310 --> 00:43:03,090 practice so I do Skype sessions if 1042 00:43:09,590 --> 00:43:07,320 anyone's interested also I'll probably 1043 00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:09,600 be doing a healing school in the fall I 1044 00:43:13,490 --> 00:43:11,310 am really being called to that because 1045 00:43:15,380 --> 00:43:13,500 there's only one of me and I'd like to 1046 00:43:18,290 --> 00:43:15,390 have some other people to recommend 1047 00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:18,300 folks to using the certain tech 1048 00:43:22,730 --> 00:43:21,030 bioenergetic techniques that I use so 1049 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:22,740 that's going on also you know Alice I 1050 00:43:26,990 --> 00:43:24,690 just want to put a call out there folks 1051 00:43:29,450 --> 00:43:27,000 are intrigued about the electric jeezus 1052 00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,460 book if they buy the book you can buy it 1053 00:43:33,290 --> 00:43:31,440 you know on Amazon very cheaply if you 1054 00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:33,300 want to sign copy you can get it at my 1055 00:43:39,650 --> 00:43:36,480 website to lot healing calm that's tal 1056 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:39,660 80 just send me an email with the 1057 00:43:44,660 --> 00:43:42,090 receipt if you get an Amazon or 1058 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:44,670 something and i'll send a 25-minute 1059 00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:48,210 chakra activation mp3 gift it's a sound 1060 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:50,880 healing it's using color vibration that 1061 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:52,770 kind of stuff and if you believe it or 1062 00:43:56,780 --> 00:43:55,170 not just you can give it a try but just 1063 00:44:00,110 --> 00:43:56,790 make sure when you email me that you say 1064 00:44:01,070 --> 00:44:00,120 that you you heard it from this show to 1065 00:44:03,140 --> 00:44:01,080 get that gift 1066 00:44:04,450 --> 00:44:03,150 just that's a little thanks and now is I 1067 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:04,460 want to say thanks man I really 1068 00:44:10,850 --> 00:44:08,730 appreciate your perspective and the way 1069 00:44:12,980 --> 00:44:10,860 you hold space and also can challenge I 1070 00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:12,990 think it's a quite a quite an artistic 1071 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:15,240 thing you're doing well that's great to 1072 00:44:18,830 --> 00:44:17,010 hear thank you so much too hot it's been 1073 00:44:21,380 --> 00:44:18,840 great having you on and I hope we stay 1074 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:21,390 in touch would love to hear as things 1075 00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:23,490 move forward with you what you're up to 1076 00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:26,700 so let's stay in touch nice yeah ofse in 1077 00:44:32,030 --> 00:44:29,760 cali thanks again just a lot for joining 1078 00:44:33,710 --> 00:44:32,040 me today on skeptic oh let me t up a 1079 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:33,720 couple of questions from this and they 1080 00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:36,090 really have to do with this issue that 1081 00:44:41,540 --> 00:44:38,630 kept coming up between being and doing 1082 00:44:44,930 --> 00:44:41,550 both in terms of how we approach other 1083 00:44:47,540 --> 00:44:44,940 substances in how we approach action so 1084 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:47,550 the first would be what about this whole 1085 00:44:55,070 --> 00:44:51,570 idea of drugs about hallucinogenic Seth 1086 00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:55,080 Nia jen's as the Gnostic crowd likes to 1087 00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:56,940 call them I thought a lot had one of the 1088 00:45:01,580 --> 00:44:59,040 best answers I've heard for that and 1089 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:01,590 that is everything is affecting our 1090 00:45:06,110 --> 00:45:03,450 consciousness is perturbing our 1091 00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:06,120 consciousness so why get too hung up on 1092 00:45:12,290 --> 00:45:09,300 whether it's ayahuasca or refined sugar 1093 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:12,300 but I don't think that really totally 1094 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:15,330 fits does it and the other issue related 1095 00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:18,330 that is don't we always come back here 1096 00:45:24,500 --> 00:45:21,510 and if we always come back here then 1097 00:45:26,630 --> 00:45:24,510 what's the big need to go there so the 1098 00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:26,640 question I guess would be do you think 1099 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:29,990 there's an appropriate place for 1100 00:45:35,110 --> 00:45:32,490 hallucinogenics for people who are 1101 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:35,120 seeking spiritual or consciousness 1102 00:45:40,910 --> 00:45:37,650 development and the second question 1103 00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:40,920 would be this question about being verse 1104 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:44,460 is doing how do we decide what are the 1105 00:45:48,980 --> 00:45:46,770 right actions I mean we sure know 1106 00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:48,990 there's a lot of unintended consequences 1107 00:45:53,660 --> 00:45:51,630 out there how do we know when we are 1108 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:53,670 supposed to act and how we are supposed 1109 00:45:58,850 --> 00:45:56,490 to act and to what extent can activism 1110 00:46:02,030 --> 00:45:58,860 be the right choice when is it a good 1111 00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:02,040 idea to rally other people and oppose 1112 00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:05,040 other groups or in some spiritual sense 1113 00:46:09,230 --> 00:46:07,440 is that always folly because things are 1114 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:09,240 always the way that they're supposed to 1115 00:46:14,620 --> 00:46:12,090 be so a couple of broad questions 1116 00:46:17,019 --> 00:46:14,630 hopefully Michael Larkin who's 1117 00:46:19,809 --> 00:46:17,029 a nice job of reframing those on The 1118 00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:19,819 Skeptical form can kind of distill those 1119 00:46:24,670 --> 00:46:22,160 down to something that's short and 1120 00:46:26,740 --> 00:46:24,680 concise will look for Michael to do that 1121 00:46:29,079 --> 00:46:26,750 of course the place to join us and talk 1122 00:46:30,910 --> 00:46:29,089 about those questions is either on The 1123 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:30,920 Skeptical form or in the comments 1124 00:46:39,339 --> 00:46:35,210 section of the website both at wwc a 1125 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:39,349 petticoat com that's ske PTI KO kaam 1126 00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:41,930 you'll also find there a link to more 1127 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:44,000 than 200 previous episodes of skip to go 1128 00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:46,970 and the Facebook and email link for me I 1129 00:46:51,370 --> 00:46:48,319 have a couple of interesting shows 1130 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:51,380 coming up and many more scheduled I hope 1131 00:46:56,079 --> 00:46:53,690 you'll stay with me for all of that but 1132 00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:56,089 until next time take care and bye for